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CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS 



•-HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

SIXTY-THIRD CONGRESS 
Second Session 



on 



H. R. 9302 



DECEMBER 5, 1913 



STATEMENTS OF 



HON. OSCAR S. STRAUS 
MR. JOHN A. STEWART 



PROF. FRED. M. FLING 

HON. CORNELIUS A. PUGSLEY 



MR. ANDREW B. HUMPHREY PROF. HENRY S. DRINKER 



DR. ALBERT SHAW 



MR. HENRY C. MORRIS 



PROF. JAMES BROWN SCOTT MRS. JOHN MILLER HORTON 



WASHINGTON 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

1914 






I mMMhi EE ON 1 OREIGN A.FFAU 

II. .1 BE OP Rl PBB8EN PAT1 
Bll n ninth I ONOBE86 

lelephorv 



HEN RY D. FLOOD, Virgil man. 

I ll \l:u-:s B. -Ml I II. N. -.1 York. 
rOHN I! W \I.Ki 
HOB \<T. W. VAUOH \N. 
HENRY A. COOPEH 
RK ll \i;i) BARTHOLDT, Missouri 
[R< mi. I'. ' 
OR i BR, Penn -.hania. 
W. i> 11. \inky, Pennsyh 
n >HN J. ROG ER8, M 
HENRY W. rEMPLE. I • 



w ll. 1. 1 \M G BHARP, 01 

CYR1 - mini, [ndl 

n I i i R80N If. LEVY, New 5 

I \MKs M. CURL] 

i CHARLE8 I. IN I IIP i M. Maryland. 

R0BER1 i: DIFENDERFEF, Ivanta 

WILLI \M 3. GOODTH IN, 

cil K.RLE8 m a i Ki'M \N. North Caroll 

EDWARD W rOWN8END f New Jersey. 

B P. ll \ RRISl IN, Kiss! 

Robi BT C ui.i.i 
li. F Odi v I 
2 



! 






CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT 



Committee on Foreign Affairs, 

House of Representatives, 

Washington, Dtcember 5, 1913. 

The committee assembled at 2.30 o'clock p. m., Hon. Henry D. 
Flood (chairman) presiding. 

The Chairman. Mr. Stewart, what bill do you desire to discuss this 
afternoon \ 

Mr. Stewart. It is House bill 9302. 

The Chairman. Introduced by Mr. Smith, of New York \ 

Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Are you gentlemen ready to proceed \ 

STATEMENT OF HON. OSCAR S. STRAUS, OF NEW YORK CITY- 

Mr. Straus. Mr. Chairman, my remarks will be brief. We come 
before you for the purpose of urging the passage of the bill H. R. 9302 ; 
but if, in the judgment of your committee, any other bill will be more 
desirable, we will be well satisfied. 

We are asa Nation fortunate in the fact that, together with Great 
Britain, we are able to celebrate 100 years of peace, and we believe 
that a celebration of so important an event in the history of peace 
will be more valuable than countless sermons, speeches, professions, 
pious wishes, and hopes. 

Here is a concrete fact that we are able to commemorate, not only 
for the welfare of the two Nations who afford this example, but for all 
nations, that two great nations can live side by side with a boundary 
of nearly 4,000 miles and for a period of 100 years can settle all of 
their differences without recourse to war, is a beautiful and a most 
gratifying fact. 

But our purpose is larger than that. We believe that such a 
celebration, fittingly made, will be the best harbinger of hope for 
the maintenance of peace for years to come — we hope unending years — ■ 
and that this example will be of great benefit to the world at large. 

Some four years ago, unofficial committees were formed for the 

Eurpose of bringing the subject before the American people; and we 
ave been working and doing the best we could in arousing public 
attention; and we have been wonderfully successful. The subject 
has been most sympathetically taken up in Canada by the leading 
officials and public citizens of that Dominion. It has been taken up 
enthusiastically in Great Britain; and a very large and important 
committee, comprising the leading men in public life and in private 
life in Great Britain have associated themselves together as the 
British Committee for the Celebration of the One Hundred Years of 
Peace, under the presidency of Earl Grey, formerly the Governor 
General of Canada. 

3 



.\ •! I 11 I. I 1:1. A I '■ 01 GHENT. 

Ami "ni\ ;i few months ago, in the month of September, I had a 
long conference with him while residing under his roof, where I spent 
several days; and I became thoroughly acquainted with the work 
thai is being done there. And thej have moved forward in a very 
practical way, and, as I understand, arrangements have already been 
made for t li«' purchase of Sulgrave Manor, the home of the Washing- 
tons, which is i" be preserved as a public monument to thai greal 
family of our first President, for th<- glorj <>f l>"t!i rountri< 

W'liai is needed now is some official recognition and a proof of 
official interest "ii the part of out Governmenl in the furtherance of 
this plan. And w e appear before you gentlemen, reeling thai we 
do not need to make any long speeches t<> vou, a- we know thai you 
will appreciate tin 1 purposes in view and the greal good thai can !>.• 

rlli rt cd. 

Our appeal t<> you now i- to give this greal cause thai official govern- 
mental sanction and approval bj 1 1i • passage of this bill or some -inn- 
lar bill. There i- no one conn >cted with this movemenl who desires 
any recognition. There air no personal vanities at. stake. We are 
interested in tin- cause for the ran-.'- sake; and we will feel that we 
have been full) compensated if you now take up th • subject in such a 
ua\ as m \<>iir judgmenl may seem best, believing and knowing, as 
we do, that if you will take action in the form of this bill, <>r any other 
form that appears to you best, the cause will immediately secure 

official action on the part of the Govern >n1 df Greal Britain, and on 

the part of out sister Commonwealth of Canada. 

Ii i- not intended to confine tin- commemoration i<> the three 
countries involved, namely, the United States, Oreal Britain, and Can- 
ada: hut we have hope and we expeel that there will be associated 
in this commemoration the leading nation- of the world, and that 
even opportunity and every inducement will be given bo them: and 
ur feel confident that they will gladly associate themselves with a 
eoniiiiei •ation which i- significant to the whole peace-loving 

w i-rld. 

Mr Harrison. Mr. ( h airman, may 1 address a question to Mr. 

St ran- '. 

'I he ( HAIRMAN. I «' It ailily. 

Mr Harrison. How do you propose to celebrate this, Mr. Straus? 
Have the promoter- of this proposition an) particular plan- in 

COni ,'lnplat ion 1 

Mr. Straus. There have been several plan- bentativel) laid out, 
of which - • of the other gentlemen who are here can -_ r i\e yon 

(lie detail- Bu1 t ho- ■ a re -I n i pi \ plan- that will he laid heloi • yon 

1 1 • 1 1 1 ; 1 1 I \ e I \ . 

Mr. Harrison. In order togel the matter <hail\ in mind, what, if 
anything, have Canada, oi Greal Britain, or Ireland, or an\ oi the 
other countries done toward carrying oul this proposition ' 

Mr. Straus. Well, this very greal and important committee 
probably one of the naosl important committees over formed in 
Greal Britain under the presidency of Earl Grey, and with such men 
as Lord Weirdale, and nearlj all the leading men of Great Britain, 
ha\e fori ) led an organization similar t«> t he one t hat we have her;!, and 

lhe\ have taken ..it urn and have made all a rran^emrlit with the 

Anglo American Exposition Co., and a pari *>i tneir resources, I 
understand, are to be derived from their exposition, to the extenl of 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 5 

£40,000, to be devoted to commemorating the celebration in some 
.some permanent educational work. 

And a movement is being perfected for application to Parliament to 
make an appropriation for this commemoration. What the British 
plans are perhaps .some of the other gentlemen of this committee, 
Mr. Stuart especially, can tell you more, definitely than I can. I 
merely want to bring to your attention the general proposition of the 
commemoration; and speaking personally, I would rather be guided 
by the judgment of the members of this committee— because it is after 
all a question that is so nearly related to foreign relations than by any 
plan formulated in advance; I should he very glad to have that plan 
entirely taken under the supervision and guidance of this committee. 

Mr. Harrison. The reason that I asked the question is that I 
understand that Judge Parker, in speaking before the Senate com- 
mittee on this proposition, suggested the idea of building monuments 
between Canada and the United States; aiid I bad understood thai 
that was the desire of those who promoted this proposition. 

Mr. Straus. That is one of the tentative plans that have been 
bio ight forward for the purpose of commemoration which is sub- 
mitted, subject, of course to the judgment and approval of this 
committee. 

But whatever form — and there may be a number of forms, and 
should, perhaps, be — the commemoration will take, it should be 
such as to physically show the cementing of peace between the two 
countries. There has to be some work done of a literary nature. 
We have in view a plan that is now in process of working out. of 
the writing of a history of the last hundred years, by some distin- 
guished authority, I think Prof. Dunning, a very distinguished his- 
torian and professor of Columbia University. 

The Chairman. Is it your understanding) Mr. Straus, that this 
commission to be appointed under this bill would recommend plans 
for the celebration of the hundredth anniversary of the signing of 
the Treaty of Ghent, and would also recommend the erection of a 
memorial '■ 

Mr. Straus. My recommendation is that this committee shoidcl 
take the whole subject under its consideration. 

The Chairman. I mean the commission to be appointed under this 
bill' 

Mr. Straus. I mean the commission should take the whole sub- 
ject under consideration. 

Mr. Bartiioj.dt. Mr. Chairman, if you will permit me I should 
like to say this: The only difficulty that I can see is that this lull 
provides merely for tin 1 appointment of a commission. 

Mr. Straus. Ye-. 

Mr. BARTHOLDT. And that commission is to elaborate a plan for 
the particular form of the celebration. Now, that means that that 
commission is to report back to Congress \ 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Barthoi.dt. And then Congress would have t>> be called upon 
to take action again, a second time, on the approval of the plan. Is 
that correct \ 

Mr. Straus. That is nay understanding of it, Mr. Bartholdt. 

Mr. Bartholdt. Now, the intervening time is very short. The 
celebration is to be next vear. 



G OELl BH \ i rOM OP Till: I l-.l.A J ': 

Mr. Straus. V 

Mr Bartholdt. And there will be only one l 

interv( the time of the eelebi "I this pres< 

moment . 

Mi Straus V 

Mr Barthoi im So I ■l'»iil»t«'«I in my own mintl whether it w< uld 
In practicable to coinc b I i whether it would 

not be better for this committee to plan and laj it bef 

tli<' Hou • : i i > r - t ■ \ al. 

The Chairman I this to be done in conjunction with any other 
commil I eo thi t is to be appoinl ■ 

Mr. I ! \i:i:i^< '\ The bill sa} 

Mi Bartholdt. Ves; this commission is to confer with similar 

I by < rreal Britain and < and also 

other commissii i of 1 1 urse, I do nol know what commissions they 
refer t" in the : 'I Stal • 

Mr. Straus. Well, there Hate commissions. 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Straus, do you nol think there ought to be 

ne limitation- on the authority of this commission as to the cosl <>f 
am prop > - i i i ■ » 1 1 t hey mighl deyi 

Straus. M) >wn vie* is Mr. ; t will explain a Little 

further that i! we can as promptly a? j> >ssible get some recogniti >n 
on the pari of our Government as a starter, it will be ;i tremend 

emenl to legislation in Canada and in Grei I Britain; and I 
think the most advisable thing for us to do i- to enact a bill of this 
kind making all appropriation which might be passed as quickly 

as possible in order to erfeel the purp >se 1 referred to, and then, sub- 
sequently, if you please, in another bill, le1 the committee elaborate 
such ;i plan as it desires. 

The Chairman. Your chief desire al presenl is to gel some recog- 
nition from this Government of the work <>f the committee thai has 
been preparing for this celebration? 

Mr. Straus. Ves, sir; thai is the chief purpose. 

Mr. Harrison. Well. Mi*. Straus, under this bill if it passes this 
commission is to take up the work of other commissions in other 
fount ries to work out b plan i 

Mr. Si R M 8. V 

Mr. Harrison. Suppose that they finally agreed on marking the 
boundary between Canada and the United State-, which would cost, 
lei us say, roughly estimating it. $5,000,000, and the} should recom- 
mend or report hack to Congress thaj thai woik should be done in 
comnn tion, in connection with other celebrations. Do you n"i 

think that it this commission, working jointlj with these other com- 
missions, should recommend that, and the Congress should turn 
that report down, EngHnd or Canada might feel badly about it and 
hold it against us that we did not carry out this reporl i 

Mr. Straus. I think not. I do nol see how that could be. It 
here, "to reporl to ( i a plan for the appropriate celebra- 

tion, in the National Capital and elsewhere:' 30 that in the very pas- 
Sage of the bill it is shown that this is simply a preliminarj commis- 
sion looking toward -uch action as Congress might deem proper; and 
it i- to b ,'\<i'A thai that preliminary commission, the way it is 

provided for in the bill, will be sensible and make sensible and prac- 
ticable Suggestions, and -itch that call he rea-otiahI\ Carried out. 

That i- the way it seems to me. 



CELEBRATION" OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 7 

The Chairman. Do you think it is necessary to have such an 
elaborate commission as provided in this bill;! 

Mr. Straus. I think it would be wise to have a very responsible 
commission. We are not distinctly wedded to it in this particular 
form; but I think it would be well to make it a dignified, large com- 
mission, which could thoioughly advise Congress. 

STATEMENT OF MR. JOHN A. STEWART. 

Mr. Stewart. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
having been more fully identified with the detail work of our American 
committee, I can explain to you some of the things that have been 
done and the causes which have led us to do certain things. 

I would like to make this statement, as a matter of record, so it 
may be plain to every one of the committee and the American public: 
That while this movement was organized in America to celebrate the 
hundredth anniversary of the signing of the treaty of Ghent, that 
anniversary was made the pretext, or the reason, for our passing a 
resolution 'at the meeting at which we were organizing, inviting 
France, Germany, Italy, and the other nations of the world to par- 
ticipate with us in a universal celebration. That has been our pur- 
pose from the very beginning; and we have tried repeatedly to make 
it clear, although, there seems to be a very widespread misunderstand- 
ing as to this our original purpose. 

This, then, was to be and is to be a universal celeb! a I ion; and 
immediately subsequent to the passage of this resolution we put before 
representatives of the various nations, through men of eminence in 
our own committee, our full plan of celebration. After we had organ- 
ized nationally, we assisted in the organization ot committees in 
Canada, in Great Britain, in Austria, and other parts of the world; 
and if vou will look at our yearbook you will see that numbers of 
ambassadors, among them Mr. Jusserand, and ministers are honorary 
members of our association. 

After the Canadian and British committees had been formed, we 
conferred with them with reference to practicable plans of celebra- 
tion: and the British committee as a part of their share in this gen- 
eral celebration have already purchased Selgrave Manor, and they 
have arranged with the authorities of Westminster Abbey to erect 
there and to have dedicated in 1915 a memorial to George Washington. 

Thev are also, in connection with the Anglo-American Exposition, 
to erect a fund which will create a lectureship memorial in connection 
with the Selgrave Manor. The trustees of the manor have already 
been appointed. Mr. Briee, as I understand it, is to be the head 
of that memorial and to deliver the first formal address upon the 
relations between America and Great Britain. 

In other ways the British committee has already prepared to 
celebrate the centenary of the signing of the treaty of Ghent. 

Now. in our turn, we have done certain concrete things. We have 
engaged Prof. Dunning, of Columbia University, the president of the 
American Historical Society, not to rewrite history or anything of 
that kind, but to write a 'history of the centenary of peace with 
particular relation to international treaties and agreements. That is 
to say, he is to explain and elucidate what has been done as between 
us and other nations with relation to the peaceful settlement of 



HOB Of mi i 8HBNT. 

Such matte ■ hut light ipoo in our school 

histories, and this is Prof. Dunnii - Hi- work will be purely 

a recital <»f facl and contain bul little comment. 

( hir American committee, under the impulse of a desire expree 
in Chicago, is t<> present to the British committee a replica of St. 
jdenss very Famous statue of Lincoln, and we intend and have 
already taken steps to preeenl to the people <>f t t nations i»f 

the world, through committees i«> !><• organized or which have already 
been organized, some memorial some gift that w ill express apprecia- 
tion on our part «>f the fact thai we have had, in many instances, un- 
broken peace, and in some other instance shifts will be a testi- 
mony and covenant that, so Far a> may be humanly possible, we will 
nol break the peace as between us and "tin*,' nations. 

AM these things w< have done. We have, besides, organized com- 
mittees in nil of the States. We have organized committees in 
7n cities and localities. Mos1 <»f these committees are active, and 

-"mi "f them have already done important work. S •• of the 

tea have established l>y legislation State commissions. As the 
resull <»f our Richmond conference, we intend i<> ask the State 
governments to celebrate together at one time, on the 17th and 18th 
of February, winch are the anniversaries of the days on which the 
treaty <»f Ghent was in the one instance ratified and in the other 
insl .nice proclaimed. 

Mr. Sri: \\ s. In u hat year 1 

Mr. Si rw \i:i . I u I 815. 

Mi >i i: \i 3. Yes. 

Mr. Stewart. We hope, therefore, to have a simultaneous cele- 
bration in a formal way: that is. by delivering addresses and having 
ceremonies, etc., at the State ci pitals and elsewhere. 

Then we arc trying to arrange For the celebration of the very strik- 
ing Facl thai never, i a between us and Germany, only once as between 
us and France, never as between us and Italy and many other natioi 
has the peace been broken by any act on the part of either that would 
lead to war. And we in various ^ ays intern I to signalize those events. 

Now, if I may reply to the query made o l'.-w moments ago l»v the 
Repi osenl al ive. 

The ( 'u \n:\! w . Mr. 1 larrison. 

Mr. S 1 1 u \i;i. We have come t<> an understanding, "I course en- 
tirely in an unofficial and informal way, with the British and Cana- 
dian committees. And may I sa \ this? Thai it has been said pub- 
licly and has been said t<> me privately thai Canada stands ready to 
tnatch anything that the Government of the United States may do 
Fot the purpose <>f this celebration in makii git success and as an 

earnest of their g I faith and <>!' their friendship I'm- us; and there 

has been suggested among otheT things, thai the boundary line be 
1 1 i t ; 1 1 > I \ marked by some Form of memorial. Canada's ideas are 
m>t extravagant, i nd neither are ours. In fact, the greatest support 
given to any proposal made l>\ ;u: ulptor or l>\ any man 

in authority upon the subjeel <>f monuments w - given t<> the propo- 
sition made by Mr. Gutzon Borda, whose head of Lincoln graces the 
Rotunda of t c Capitol, that we could take some of the enormous 
boulders left l>^ the glaciers and pi on the face of them bronze 
tablets with b fitting inscription ; which would be more dignified than 
any enormous pile <>f polished granite o bl< that the sculptors 



CELEBKATIOX OF THE TREATY OF GHEXT. 9 

; ml artists and architects of this country or of the world could 
elaborate. 

And our whole idea as to monuments is something simple and dig- 
nified: so that we shall not ask for, and we shall not try to raise, any 
enormous sums of money for this purpose. What we do hope to do, 
however, aside from the mere celebration, is to lave certain endow- 
ments created; and we have not only the hope, but we have the assur- 
ance, in certain parts, that they \v ill be created; and among these 
is one to permit us to bring aboul an interchange of newspaper men. 
I do not mean by this the men who have established reputations as 
great authors and whose names signed to almost any sort of produc- 
tion will bring $] or $2 a word, but the men who really are the real 
molders of public opinion in this country and in other countries 
the working newspaper men, who tell the story of the doings of every 
day in their own language in the newspapers. 

We want to send newspaper men all through die world, to France, 
Germany, Great Britain, and Canada, and to keep them there through 
a term of years, that they may educate themselves into an understand- 
ing of the personality and of the traits and character of the peoples 
of the world, and that they may put them understandingly before 
our people, so that we may in turn understand people of other nations 
a little better. And we want to bring newspaper men from Germany 
Prance, and other parts of the world to America, that they in turn 
may be educated to understand us and that they may interpret us 
to the people of the country from which they come. 

Then we want to establish endowments for lectureships and inter- 
change of professors, and for a number of other purposes, all of which 
are purely a private matter for our own committee, and of course we 
shall obviously not ask Congress or the Government to appropriate 
a penny for such purpose. 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Stewart, can you give us any idea, roughly, of 
what would be the cost of this celebration according to the plans that 
you have mapped out or considered '. 

Mr. Stewart. According to our own plans, with what we should 
hope to raise privately and in connection with these various endow- 
ments, which are really an aftermath of the celebration, it will prob- 
ably cost several million dollars. 

Mr. Harrison. How many millions? 

Mr. Stewart. Oh, so far as the celebration itself is concerned and 
official participation, we hope and expect that the most eminent men 
of the various countries of the world will come here: and we have 
been told by various representatives of other governments that, in 
all likelihood, we shall be called upon to entertain men of the very 
highest eminence and the very highest standing from other countries. 
This will alone cost a large sum, but it will be money well spent. 

We hope — and we can not realize it, of course, without official 
recognition, congressional recognition — we hope to make this cele- 
bration so universal, so to impress the public mind, so to inspire the 
sentiment of the peoples of the world, that there will be a tremendous 
interchange of individuals; in other words, that thousands and 
thousands of our citizens may go abroad, go to London, go to Berlin, 
go to Paris, and to other places where this celebration is going on; 
and we have assurances that a great many will go, men who never 
have been over before. That, of course, will be entirely private. 



10 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

The Chairman. What we arc anxious to ascertain, Mr. Stewart, is 
bow much you are likely to ask the Government to appropriate for 
the purposes of this celebration i 

Mr. Stewart. Well, in the first instance, there is the plan of 
official participation. Now, we have no plans in that regard at all: 
we arc leaving thai matter entirely to the Government, with the 
statement on our part that we have, as I say, received assurances 
from our friends in other lands that there will be men here of the very 
highest eminence, whom the Government would delight to honor, 
and who if they should come her-' they would have to come here and 
he officially recognized, or undoubtedly many of them could not 
come — and for obvious reasons. 

I should say that, under the terms of this bill, all of the immediate 
necessities of the celebration would be Cared for here up to the time 
of a submission to Congress of a comprehensive plan of Government 
participation, because we do not hope that as a result of our efforts 
or through Government appropriation to complete all of these monu- 
ments, and it is not our intention to do so. We want to complete 
what we can. We want to have a respectable number finished. "We 
want to start, perhaps, one or two. and trust to the future and to the 
sentiment evoked by this celebration to bring about their completion. 

So that it is very hard to answer concretely your question, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Harrison. Can you give tis any idea? The reason I ask the 
question is that if we go into the House with a proposition like this 
the Members will want to know about the approximate cost of it ; and 
if you can not give them any ideas as to the cost of a proposition, you 
fall down with the proposition. 

Mr. Stewart. Well, I should say, from what I have learned in 
Canada and elsewhere, that it is rather the consensus of view that the 
ultimate cost iu toto of this celebration would not be much over half 
a million dollars. What do you think, Mr. Humphrey '. That is 
aside, as I say, from such monuments as may be bui't far in the 
future. 

Mr. Harrison. Let us take into consideration the monuments also. 
How much do you think it would cost i 

Mr. Stewart. That is a poser. I should say several million dollars. 

Mr. Harrison. How many millions' 

Mr. Stkwart. Three or four. 

Mi'. Straus. Oh, no. It depends, of course, upon what monuments 
they decide upon. 

The Chairman. Do you expect Congress to ultimately appropriate 
that much money? Is that what you mean? 

Mr. Stewart. Xo: Congress would undoubtedly listen to the 
request of its own commission, provided a commission were created, 
in the carrying out of any plan that the commission might prepare. 

Mr. Harrison. The United States would put up its pro rata share 
of 1 hat amount, would ii not '. 

Mr. Stewart. We understand that Canada will put up, dollar for 
dollar, whatever the United State- is willing to appropriate in our 
common expense. 

And we also understand that the United States having taken the 
initiative in this celebration, Great Britain and the component 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 1 1 

members of the British Empire stand ready to follow whatever the 
Government of the United States may do. 

Mr. Sharp. Mr. Stewart, have you any well-defined plan that you 
and your associates are at work upon to be carried out ? Have you got 
that" far? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sharp. What do you contemplate, briefly stated '. 

Mr. Stewart. We hope to see erected along the boundary between 
the United States and Canada certain monuments that will signalize 
the peace that has prevailed between us for the last hundred years- 
commemorative monuments. But, as I say, these we have planned 
to be plain and dignified. Mr. Humphrey, who was chairman of the 
committee on memorials, can submit a list of the propositions which 
we have considered. 

The Chairman. They are to be paid for by the two Governments? 

Mr. Stewart. That does not necessarily follow. The State gov- 
ernments and the Provincial Governments stand ready to appropriate 
something toward their payment. In some instances, they will be 
entirely paid for by the State and Provincial Governments and by 
public subscriptions. 

The Chairman'. But in the event the State and Provincial Gov- 
ernments fail to do so 

Mr. Stewart. Then, as I understand it, the Dominion Govern- 
ment stands ready to match the money contributed by the United 
States, dollar for dollar. 

The Chairman. The Dominion Government and this Government 
would pay for them ? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir; the Dominion Government and this Gov- 
ernment would pay for it. 

The Chairman. 'What would be the cost, in your opinion, of the 
celebration itself ? 

Mr. Stewart. Well, the celebration is divided into three parts — 
the national celebration, which is to be here in the District of Co- 
lumbia, the National Capital; the State celebrations, which will be 
held on the 17th and 18th of February, 1915; and then local cele- 
brations, which will follow the order established for them, from East 
and South to North and West. 

The local celebrations, of course, are purely a local matter; and 
no appropriation is asked for them. So are the State celebrations 
entirely a State matter, and no appropriation is asked for them. 

All that we are asking for is the creation of this commission, and 

the participation of the United States Government in such celebra- 

. tion as is taken part in by Great Britain, Canada, and other nations. 

In other words, the international celebration, and the erection of 

monuments. 

The Chairman. That is what I was asking about: What appro- 
priation would be asked of Congress to bear the expenses of the 
celebration itself '. 

Mr. Stewart. Well, I should say $500,000 would cover that. 

Mr. Straus. $500,000, and the SI 50,000 for all the preliminary 
part of the work. 

Mr. Stewaht. Yes; and probably all of that might not be used, 
and that could be applied to the $500,000. 



12 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OE GHENT. 

The Chairman. Where do you propose that these commissions 

ould meet, the commissions on the part of Canada, Great Britain, 
and other countries? 

Mr. Stewart. I should say that, as with meetings of our own 
commission with the British, the Australian, the Newfoundland, 
and the Canadian commissions, which met in the city of New York, 
that other commissions might accept invitations to come line to meet! 

The Chairman'. I mean the joint meeting contemplated by this 
hill? 

Mr. Stewart. I assume there might be two meetings, one meeting 
here in Washington and perhaps a meeting in London. We have 
had joint meetings; we expect to have a joint meeting this coming 
year in London. 

The Chairman. Well, the ex ofiicio members of this commission 
as designated in this bill are representative men. 

Mr. Stewart. Yes. 

The Chairman. And will be very busy the first half of next year. 

Mr. Stewart. Well, of course, so far as the personnel of the com- 
mission is concerned— in fact, the entire bill itself is simply intro- 
duced, through the courtesy of Representative Smith, by way of 
suggestion. We have no pride in the proposition at all, and we 
simply lay the matter before Congress in the form of this bill in 
order that you gentlemen may criticize and change it in such par- 
ticulars as you may see fit, 

The Chairman. Then do you not recognize the force of the sug- 
gestion made by Dr. Bartholdt— for instance, this appropriation for 
the celebration itself would certainly have to be made before next 
December, would it not? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes; it seems so. The celebration will begin on 
the 24 th of December of this coming year. 

The Chairman. Now, Congress might adjourn in June. Do you 
contemplate this commission making a report before that time and 
getting an additional appropriation? 

Mr. Stewart. We assume this: Our committee, for instance, has 
been at work now for nearly four years. We have a mass of material 
which we could lay before the commission inside of 24 hours if it 
were needed, and also reports in typewritten form of all the con- 
ferences we have held, everything that we have done, and which 
are, I believe, illuminative of this whole subject. 

So that the commission as appointed would not have to hold very 
many meetings, and not very many hearings. In fact, all the 
information that they would want could be laid before them imme- 
diately. There are committees, as I say, in every State and every 
locality in this country. 

The Chairman. That is doubtless true, as you state. But even so, 
do you not think this appropriation is rather too large for prelimi- 
nary purposi 

Mr. Stewart. Well, that is for the committee, of course, f <> say. 

Mr. Sharp. Mr. Stewart, in that connection let me here say that, 
in view of the experience we had in raising about $700, 000 to build 
the Perry Monumenl at Put-in-Bay, near niv home in Ohio, the 
form of the appropriation as it came out of Congress contained 
certain conditions precedent that the various States that bordered 
upon these I rreat Lakes should contribute their quota — and I assume 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 13 

that whatever is done by Congress, and whatever bill may be reported 
out of this committee, it will have provisos in it as conditions prece- 
dent that the Dominion of Canada must first satisfy Congress that so 
much is pledged and will be raised— the State of New York so much 
and these other donors so much. 

I am only throwing this out as a suggestion, because undoubtedly 
Congress would require those stipulations and those conditions 
before it passed such a bill. 

Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. In fact, we should be very pleased to have 
them incorporated in the bill. 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Stewart, you say you have all of your plans 
ready to turn over to this commission immediately: that is, your 
suggestions for the celebration ? 
Mr. Stewart. Yes. 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I notice Judge Parker says that you con- 
template the construction of permanent monuments, consisting of 
parks, roadways, and international bridges, etc. Do you contemplate 
all of that ? That would take a good deal more money than you 
estimate there. 

Mr. Stewart. Judge Parker refers to a particular instance, along 
the Niagara frontier, where the Dominion of Canada owns a strip 
100 feet wide, from lake to lake. On our side, the New York side, 
we have already a park owned by the State; we have a boulevard, 
which is nearly completed, from Buffalo to Fort Niagara; and the 
judge referred to a plan which we had under contemplation with 
relation to the State of New Y'ork. 

Now, the Dominion of Canada is planning the building of a boule- 
vard from Fort Erie to Windsor; that is, across the Canadian pen- 
insula. And inasmuch as that road will be built, and other roads are 
being built — for instance, in the State of Michigan and elsewhere, as 
in New York State, where we are building a road from New York to 
the Canadian frontier, and Canada in turn from Quebec to Montreal 
down to Rouses Point, meeting the New York frontier— we have 
been trying for several 3-ears to bring about some coordination of 
plan in the building of these roads, and to some extent we have 
succeeded, not so much as a memorial, but as a means of facilitating 
intercourse between us and our Canadian friends. 

That is what Judge Parker refers to, and in some part, as I say, 
our plan has already been carried out. The boulevard next spring 
will be built to the "Canadian frontier and in August from Montreal 
south, so that that boulevard will be opened; and under a Parlia- 
mentary act, or a provincial act, the Canadian part of the boulevard 
has been named in memory of King Edward. 

Then Judge Parker's reference to a memorial bridge or bridges 
refers to a matter which was taken up between us and the Canadian 
committee and the Canadian Government, and it seems to meet, to 
some extent, the sentiments of the Canadian committee. 

But, of course, if any proposition of that kind is made it will be 
made as a separate proposition emanating, not alone from us, but 
from the provincial and the Dominion Governments as well. So 
that that matter does not come under what you might call the estab- 
lishment of memorials, because it would require the formal joint 
action of the two Governments. And as I say, while Canada and 
the people that we have seen in this country are very much taken 



- 4 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

with the bridge idea, vet it is a monument that would require sepa- 
rate action, which we hope some time will be taken as a very fitting 
way in which to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of peace 
between us and Canada. 

And that plan and other plans will, of course, be laid before the 
congressional commission, although they are, in a way, entirely 
apart from the celebration proper. 

Mr. Sharp. As a matter of fact. Mr. Stuart, you would not expect 
io celebrate that anniversary by means of monuments any more than 
by the laying of the corner stones in the case of many of these monu- 
ments, would you ? 

Mr. Stewart. That is about what we have in contemplation; that 
is all we can do now. But in order to lay a corner stone we must 
i u iike plans, and plans must be prepared under some definitive action 
on the part of those in authority. 

Mr. Bartholdt. Mr. Chairman, of course the question in the 
minds of the committee is how to persuade Congress to do something. 
I judge from that standpoint because I am entirely favorable to the 
proposition. But I am afraid that an appropriation of $150,000 for 
this commission, considering the fact that they are to serve without 
compensation, and that the material is practically ready to be laid 
before the commission, is a little too high, and I want to ask you, 
Mi. Stewart, whether you would consider it — of course, you would 
not consider it an unfriendly act if that appropriation should be cut 
down? 

Mr. Stewart. Not at all. As I say, we have no pride in either 
the amount of the appropriation or the bill itself, and that is simply 
laid before this committee as a suggestion. 

Mr. Harrison. I hope you wdl not consider it unfriendly because 
I ask these questions. [Laughter.] 

Mr.. Stewart. No, sir; not at all. 

Mr. Harrison. Because you know we have an economical Con- 
gress this year. 

Mr. Stewart. We are here to be criticized and to answer questions, 
and we are here to do anything this committee desires us to do and 
we not only assent but we cordially and. sincerely assent to every 
proposition this committee may make as to this bill or any bill we 
may put before them, and whatever consideration this committee 
sees fit to give we shall accept with very great thanks. 

Mr. Cline. May I ask you a quest ion, Mr. Stewart ? 

Mr. Stewart. Certainly. 

Mr. Cline. What this committee wants, more than anything else, 
is some concrete information as to what plan your committee has 
arrived at, If we are to pilot this proposition through Congress, we 
have to have that kind of information. 

Mr. Stewart. Yes; and we are prepared to give it to you. 

Mr. Cline. Because on the floor of the House, when the bill gets 
there, therewill be a lot of inquiries, and otherwise we would not 
know anything about how to answer them. 

Mr. Stewart. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Cline. And before we start in on this proposition, as one mem- 
ber of the committee I should like to have pretty definite information 
of what you propose to have done and how you propose to do it. 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY" OF GHENT. 15 

Mr. Stewart. Yes; we shall be very glad to lay before the com- 
mittee all the data we have— a summary of it— so that you may see 
for yourselves just what we are planning and just what we have done. 

The Chairman. Have you not given us a pretty good summary of 
what vou have done ? ' 

Mr. Stewart. Oh, yes; but you may want copies oi our resolu- 
tions. We have a voluminous *y earDook > which deals somewhat in 
detail with everything we have done. But. as I say, there are many 
things we have not been able to do, except by way of suggestion, 
because we have no governmental sanction and there has been no 
Government commission to take up the work authoritatively. 

Mr. Cline. I understand that many of these plans are merely 
speculative ? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes. 

Mr. Cline. And no definite understanding has been reached as to 

them ? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes. 

Mr. Cline. And of course they are so varied themselves that the 
cost of them necessarily is varied. But that matter of plan and cost 
is an important matter, about which the House will have to know 
before they consider any of them. 

Mr. Stewart. We shall be very glad to lay before you, sir, such 
plans by way of suggestion as to border monuments which we have, 
and I may say that very likely we can get from the Canadian com- 
mittee an authoritative'statement of just what they would suggest 
and how far they will go as to plans, and what they would suggest 
as to the cost of monuments. 

The Chairman. Has the Canadian committee been appointed? 
Mr. Stewart. Y r es; but their status is very different from ours. 
There, as in Great Britain, the committee itself represents unofficially 
the Government, In other words, George Perley, who is a minister 
of Mr. Borden's cabinet, without portfolio, is the guiding influence 
of the committee, and Sir Edmund Walker, who is a conspicuous 
member of the Government, is the chairman. Other members of the 
Government are members ol that committee, so that it has a quasi 
official character that no committee in this country can have. 

That is absolutely true also ol the British committee and the Aus- 
tralian committee, so that anything you may get from the Canadian 
committee would be almost the same as if Mr. Borden and his Gov- 
ernment were to put their vise to it. 

Mr. Cline. I do not want to be understood, Mr. Stewart, as being 
opposed to this proposition at all. 

Mr. Stewart. I understand, sir; your question was very proper, 
and we are glad to answer it, 

Mr. Sharp. 01 course, you can only give your opinion as to what 
would be done by this commission. 
Mr. Stewart. Of course. 



1(1 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

STATEMENT OF MR. ANDREW B. HUMPHREY, OF NEW YORK, 
SECRETARY OF THE AMERICAN COMMITTEE AND CHAIR- 
MAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON MEMORIALS. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Humphrey, we will be glad to hear from 
you. 

Mr. Humphrey. Mr. Stewart has the program in charge. Since 
you gentlemen have just been through the closing hours of Congress, 
and I have hern through practically the same thing in Richmond, I 
will be brief. 

Our main objed is not to take the initiative and go too far ami 
presume too much. His Majesty the King of England practically 
appointed and sanctioned the -ending over of a large committee . 
under the leadership of Lord Weardale, Sir George Reid, Lord High 
Commissioner of Australia, and Sir Edmund Walker, of Canada, and 
they came direct to the United States and by invitation visited the 
House of Representatives and were officially received by the Speaker. 
They were also received by the President of the United States and 
the Vice President, who commended the action of the committee. 

( ur committee has worked with this one idea of being able to 
bring together all the cooperative influences, societies, organizations, 
the peace societies, the fraternal organizations, the churches, and 
the schools and universities into an effective working national com- 
mittee. 

Now, we have a committee of about 10,000 members. Each gov- 
ernor has appointed a committee from his own State. We have 
created this organization for this purpose — to help make this cele- 
bration a national and international success. 

If we go to Canada, or England, where the King has officially 
given his sanction to certain parts of our work and the Government 
has given its approval, or to Australia, or Canada — they can say to 
u.-, VS hat is the Government of the United States doing" '. 

So we have brought the matter to you gentlemen for you to say 
what it is not for us to say — what attitude the Government of the 
United States shall take towards the advances, if you please, made 
by his Majesty the King of the Dominions overseas, and men like 
Ambassador Jusserand. who is a member of our committee and is 
willing to recommend that France shall participate with other nations 
in making this celebration a world commemoration. 

The Chairman. What we arc anxious to get at, Mr. Humphrey, 
is what you contemplate, the memorials that will be erected— 

Mr. Humphrey (interposing 1 . I am chairman of the committee on 
memorials 

The CHAIRMAN (continuing 1 . And what the celebration will cost 
this Government. 

Mr. Humphrey. I have made =, three years' study of it with the 
consulting engineer of the committee. We have also had the advice 
of a retired Army officer who is thoroughly familiar with the Canadian 
frontier and has handled the Government appropriations for the 
entrance to the Erie Canal near Buffalo; we have had his advice. 
We were here last year with a picture of a proposed memorial bridge 
at Buffalo and one at Niagara. Falls. 

Now, we can not fix amounts offhand. It will cost more than this 
firs »propriation to get a< te surveys and plans and estimates 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 17 

upon which a contractor could work or upon which Congress could 
depend. All we can say is that we have recommended to our com- 
mittee on memorials that ''the little gravestones" that now mark 
the boundary be removed, and that we put something up there that 
will suggest 'life and sentiment, so that the hunter, the little child, 
or the farmer passing by would almost take off their hats, knowing 
that they were on the border line of the United States and Canada. 

We can not estimate cost until we determine what the model of 
the monuments shall be. It might be anywhere from $10,000 to 
$5, 000,000— depending upon what your engineers recommend. 

The Chairman. How many of those would you recommend 1 

Mr. Humphrey. 1 would "not recommend. I should leave that 
entirely to Congress. 

The Chairman. Then you can not give us any estimate of what 
we would be expected to appropriate in the future \ 

Mr. Humphrey. No; I do not think it is advisable to submit any 
estimate. I think that should be left to Congress and the com- 
mission under its control, to make recommendations and secure esti- 
mates. . . 

The Chairman. Well, you ask us here for an appropriation of 

$150,000. 

Mr. Humphrey. For that purpose, and examining into the matter 

and reporting. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute, please. That may lead to indefi- 
nite appropriations in the future. As these gentlemen have stated, 
time and again, before we can get this appropriation through we 
have to give the House some idea of what this thing may lead to, 
what is expected now and what will be expected of Congress in the 
future. 

Mr. Humphrey. I see your point. I think the proper people to 
pass upon that would be your commission — or, if your committee 
had time to go into the details, we would be very glad to submit 
them at the hearings. 

The Chairman. We thought you had made an estimate. 

Mr. Humphrey. Only in a rough way. 

The Chairman. We would like to have it in a rough way. 

Mr. Humphrey. You can not get an engineer to submit an esti- 
mate for a bridge across the Niagara River without the specifications. 
Mr. Stuart has given it in the rough. 

Mr. Bartholdt (interposing). Mr. Humphrey, would it not be 
possible that we might estimate here on some certain plan, and when 
that commission gets to work they can reject it and devise an entirely 
different plan if they desire? 

Mr. Humphrey. Yes, sir: the Government engineers will inform 
you; and our engineer, if you wish to consult him. will give what in- 
formation he has. 

The Chairman. That is true; the commission may reject every 
suggestion you maks. But. at the same time, if you give us an esti- 
mate of what the cost will probably be. when we are trying to get 
this bill through the House, we can make a statement that is based on 
the information derived fn>m somebody who has made a study of the 
question. 

27198—14 2 



18 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

Mr. Humphrey. We could not do that as well as you could for a 
post office, for instance, because in that case you have a specific plan 
to work on, and those plane cosl money. 

Mr. Bartiioldt. If you will permit me. Mr. Chairman, I see the 
difficulty. The only way in which that could be reached in connec- 
tion with this hill would be to put a limitation of the amount within 
which that commission is to estimate its plans. 

Mr. Stedman. Mr. Chairman, Col. Cameron would like to answer 
that question. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Cameron. In a rough way, to answer that question 1 do not 
know how we can do it better than to adopt the suggestion made to 
this committee by the Secretary of State an hour or two ago when we 
called on him. He said the committee would be asking these ques- 
tions, and preparatory to answering them he said, "Tell them this, 
that all the cost covered by your plans would be less than the cost 
of a battleship for England, and less than the cost of a battleship for 
America." When everything is said and done, we do not know where 
these figures will carry up to; but it will all be inside the cost of a 
battleship, both for England and for America. 

The Chairman. I do not think that will be regarded as a satis- 
factory answer. 

Mr. Harrison. That might appeal to some of us, but not to all. 

Mr. Stewart. Mr. Chairman, may I say this, that we shall be very 
happy inside of a week or ten days to lay before this committee a 
definite estimate of the cost of the celebration and the cost of the 
border memorials. These estimates are of varying figures running 
from $1 up to $100 apiece, and the estimates will also show in some 
detail what we have been advised by our artists, architects, and 
others. 

And if that will be satisfactory and will cover the desires of the 
committee we shall be very glad indeed to submit to you all of these 
various proposals in black and white, with figures to back up our 
statements. 

The Chairman. Yes; you realize, of course, that what we want is 
to be in a position to defend this proposition on the floor of the 
House. 

Mr. Stewart. Yes; I understand. 

Mr. Sharp. I w r ant to ask Mr. Humphrey this question. He has 
given a good deal of study and knows more than anybody else about 
the territory and the field investigation this commission would have 
to go over, because the commission would be new to it. 

Suppose the committee see fit now to recommend the passage of the 
bill, so modifying it as to the size of the commission and the amount 
involved as to put the amount down to $25,000 w r ith a smaller com- 
mission, making it purely a temporary arrangement and tentative 
to investigate in a preliminary way and get all the information we are 
seeking to get, with a view to presenting it in a more thorough manner 
to Congress showing what appropriations would be needed to carry 
the plan through; would that be satisfactory'? 

Mr. Humphrey. We would not need any appropriations at all if 
the Government would furnish the engineers and competent people 
to make such a report, and make an intelligent report. But if we 
have to hire competent engineers, they are very expensive, and the 



& 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 19 

making' of plans is expensive, and the traveling is expensive. Tlie 
Government is in a position to do this more cheaply with its own men 
as, for instance, with Col. Simons, who has had charge of the great 
works along the Niagara frontier. He has contributed valuable 
information to us without a cent of cost to us, and he is a retired Army 
officer. 

Mr. Sharp. That is along the line of my thought, that instead of 
now expecting us to appropriate or recommend an appropriation of 
$150,000, for merely preliminary purposes — we all concede that in 
its finality it will be very much larger than $150,000 — we make a 
smaller appropriation for the preliminary work; $150,000 is alto- 
gether too large for preliminary work, and not anywhere near large 
enough for a final appropriation. 

Mr. Humphrey. I see your point ; and to answer your question, I 
think your committee, with your great experience (and this is not my 
first experience), I know you gentlemen are able to handle these 
things in an economical and thorough way; and speaking for myself 
and those of my colleagues, whom I know well, I should be perfectly 
willing to leave this matter in vour hands, to fix that amount at 
$25,000 if you see fit. 

The amount in the bill as it was unanimously passed by the Senate 
last year was $100,000. It was a bill similar to this and was lost 
in the closing hours of Congress, because the House never had time 
to reach it. 

I think I may say, if there is no objection on the part of my col- 
leagues, that I am perfectly willing to leave it any way you gentlemen 
see fit. You represent the Government; and whatever you do will 
be satisfactory to us; and we will give you the benefit of our work. 
And I want to say that none of these gentlemen are under salary; 
not a dollar is paid to them for services rendered. But we will give 
you all we have been able to gather and accumulate, and will cooper- 
ate with you in every way, and leave it in your hands; and I think 
that will be satisfactory to all our members. 

Mr. Sharp. Mr. Humphrey, I want to say that, so far as I am 
personally concerned, it is because I am in favor of this proposition 
that I want to present a feasible proposition which Congress will pass; 
and I do not think it is possible to get $150,000 to spend in a pre- 
liminary way. 

Mr. Humphrey. I understand. And the time, as Mr. Bartholdt 
says, is very short. The expenditure of that money will be entirely 
in your hands; and if it was not all used the rest of it could be turned 
back. That is for you gentlemen to say. 

Mr. Clixe. You should understand that the House very rarely 
returns bills back here, and this is a special appropriation. 

Mr. Humphrey. Well, a committee of Congress like this would 
doubtless have its recommendations accepted. 

We are perfectly willing to leave it to you. I have in my hand a 
list of 2.3 memorial propositions; but only three or four of them, I 
think, will be considered as proper for the Government. Such propo- 
sitions as the States adopt will be paid for by them: and the statue 
that we propose to ereet to Queen Victoria in Washington will be paid 
for and managed by the women of the United States; and certain 
other things will be done by the 20,000,000 school children of the 1 
United States; others by the citizens in New York City, who expect 



20 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

to creel a museum of the peaceful arts, with an ultimate cost of 
$30,000,000, and we do not propose to ask the United States Govern- 
ment for a cent for those things. Pail of that money is already 
raised. 

That will simply show you the way in which this celebration 
sentiment has grown. Take the meeting at Richmond yesterday, 
for example. There wen' gentlemen from as far away as Saskatche- 
wan; ami others from Nebraska, from Niagara Falls, Buffalo, 
Georgia, California, New Hampshire, etc., and various parts of the 
country. If we had time it would he very interesting for you to hear 
from them, about the sentimenl existing in those various localities. 

The Chairman. I think thee committee is pretty well satisfied 
about the public sentiment behind this movement. We just want 
to got at what it is practicable to get through Congress. 

STATEMENT OF DR. ALBERT SHAW, OF NEW YORK CITY. 

Dr. Shaw. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I do 
not think 1 shall take your time for more than a moment. I think 
the matter has been presented to you; and you understand per- 
fectly that we are all here with a public-spirited motive, and no 
other. And our motive in nowise differs from yours, except that 
your rsponsibility is greater than ours in handling public money. 

I think that the idea, which we believe to be a very good one, 
and a really valuable one, should have the sanction of the Gover- 
nment, and if you should deem it wise to appoint a commission, 
and to give the commission money enough so that its necessary 
expenses for a preliminary survey could be met, that commission, 
in cooperation with the men who have really done a great deal of 
work, would accomplish what we desire. 

I met last May those international commissions in New York that 
came from England and Australia and Canada; and it seemed to 
me that they had not only large visions and varied plans, but that 
they were ingenuous and efficient enough to carry out many of those 
with money that would be raised by voluntary subscription and in 
private ways. 

But to get that accomplished efficiently would give prestige to the 
whole thing; and since the whole thing represents governmental 
action anyway, the celebration of a great governmental event, if 
we should get the Government to give its sanction to the whole idea 
of a celebration, and to give an official touch to the celebration as 
such, it has seemed to me that very many of these monuments and 
memorials would be built and could be built just as well by localities. 

I do not know of any particular reason why, for instance, memo- 
rials that would mark transit from Minnesota to Manitoba could 
not be paid for by the citizens of Minnesota and Manitoba: and I 
imagine that they would find a way to do that, and be glad to do it. 
Would they not, Mr. Nelson? 

Mr. Nelson. I think so. 

Dr. Shaw. I think so. Mr. Nelson is from Minneapolis. I lived 
in Minnesota once; and I think Minnesota and Manitoba would take 
care of important projects along their boundary line. I think New 
York and Ontario are evolving their plans and providing pretty nearly 
what we want now along the frontier. 



CELEBRATION OF THE TEEATY OF GHENT. 21 

But Government oversight to give suggestions and directions to 
some of those States would produce more satisfactory results, without 
going very deeply into the Treasury. I do not believe we need go 
very deeply into the Treasury to get the program achieved. But I 
do think that a Federal commission, which is official and which is 
created by act of Congress, could help to formulate and coordinate 
a great many of these plans and bring them to a focus; and it would 
be very possible then — I imagine Sir Edmund Walker would be glad 
to come at once, or within a reasonable time, to Washington, and to 
confer with such commission ; and he has given a great deal of thought 
to the matter, as several others of the leading public men of Canada 
have done. 

I imagine that plans would begin to be evolved out of suggestions 
very rapidly; and you would find that out of the thinking that has 
already been done you would get a very workable, efficient, and at the 
same time economical program. 

There is not a single gentleman who has come here to-day who has 
the slightest desire or the slightest lurking motive which would lead 
the United States Government into an extravagant expenditure. I 
think every penny ought to be very carefully checked, and there 
ought to be real results for every penny spent. I have myself felt 
that even money appropriated by the Government for celebration 
purposes was more or less inefficiently expended. I should like to 
see it done economically; but I should like to see also very permanent 
and abiding results, because I believe that great value in every sense, 
moral and political and economical, will result from these celebrations 
of peace. 

Mr. Bartholdt. Mr. Chairman, if you will permit me 1 should like 
to ask a question. 

The Chairman. Certainly, Mr. Bartholdt, 

Mr. Bartholdt. As I understand it, to fix the scope of this cele- 
bration and plan is left entirely to the United States by the Canadian 
and the English commissions ? 

Dr. Shaw. I so understand it. 

Mr. Bartholdt. And then after a plan has been devised to appro- 
priate the total amount, Canada and England will match, dollar for 
dollar, what we give? 

Dr. Shaw. The prime minister of Canada. Mr. Borden, has so stated 
has he not ? 

Mr. Stewart. Yes. 

Dr. Shaw. And that has been supported by Sir Edmund Walker, 
and a number of other Canadians, both in public and in semipublic 
lite. 

Mr. Bartholdt. Is the Canadian Government going to make that 
appropriation officially, or is the English Government going to make 
it, or are they going to make it jointly? 

Dr. Shaw. The Canadian Government 

Mr. Stewart (interposing). Separately. 

Dr. Shaw. The Canadian Government will match, dollar for dol- 
lar, what we give. What the English Government will do will be in 
addition to that and separate from that. 



22 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

STATEMENT OF PKOF. JAMES BROWN SCOTT, OF WASHINGTON, 

D. C. 

Prof. Scott. Mr. Chairman, there is very little that I feel I should 
say after the matter has been so fully presented. 

It serins to me, however, that the time has come, or should eome 
\ cry soon, when the United States should determine whether there 
should be an officia] celebration and what manner and form that 
celebrat ion should take. 

These gentlemen who have labored for the last four years have 
created plan after plan, and have created a sentiment at home and 
abroad in favor of a celebration of LOO years of peace. 

But they have come to an impasse. We do not know how far we 
should go or where we should stop, and we can not very well ask the 
Canadian and British authorities to pledge themselves to a celebration 
unless these authorities can be assured that the United States Gov- 
ernment itself believes that a celebration should take place and takes 
charge of the national or the international phases of it. 

Dr. Shaw. What we call the ceremonial phases of it. 

Prof. Scott. Now, what the Government should do we can not as 
private individuals suggest. It seems to me that the one thing we 
should do at the present time is to suggest the appointment of a 
commission, a limited commission, if you please, giving that com- 
mission a small sum of money — I personally would be averse to the 
appropriation of a large sum of money— in order to make a pre- 
liminary survey as to the nature and extent of the official national or 
international celebration for which the United States would be 
responsible. 

Now, if such a commission were appointed, with a modest sum of 
money to meet its necessary expenses, this commission naturally 
would get into touch w T ith the various gentlemen and the committees 
who have given thought to this matter for the past four years, and 
would be in a position to report to Congress a plan outlining the 
nature and the scope of this celebration, and it seems to me that at 
the. present it is rather useless to go ahead and to outline plan after 
plan which shall never take place: but it would be the pari of wisdom, 
on the contrary, to appoint a small representative official and responsi- 
ble commission to study the various plans and then to present such a 
project for the consideration of Congress. 

When that is done we will know just what the Government is pre- 
pared to recommend, and the foreign governments will be in a position 
to cooperate. 

Rut at the present time everything is in the air; and therefore, for 
the purpose of certainty and reaching some kind of conclusion as to 
what should be done, I think a preliminary survey is necessary; and 
at that preliminary survey a study of the nature, the plait, and the 
scope of the celebration should be made by an official committee; 
and thai for the purpose of carrying out the work of this commission 
a small sum should be appropriated, just large enough to cover the 
expenses for work actually done. 

Mr. Smith. Prof. Scott, has not this volunteer committee dome that 
pari of the work already? Have they not actually accomplished 
what you suggesl ( 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 23 

Prof. Scott. No, sir; they have done a large part of the work. 
They have prepared many plans, li might be that the commission 
to be appointed might accept part of these plans and might reject 
others. . 

If the hundred years of peace is to be appropriately celebrated, it 
must be done officially; and it is well to know at the very beginning 
just what part the Government will take in it; and the Government 
would prefer to rely on the commissioners appointed by it to report 
to it a plan and the scope of the celebration. The members, Mr. 
Stewart and his committee, the State committees, and the local com- 
mittees, would be very glad to place at the disposal of this commission 
such information and such projects as they have. 

But the point is to say whether the United States Government is 
going to do anything, and to what extent the United States Govern- 
ment is prepared to celebrate this event, before any official cooperation 
can be asked from the foreign governments which we are seeking to 
interest in the movement. 

Mr. Rogers. Do you care to suggest a sum which, in your opinion, 
this bill ought to carry '. 

Prof. Scott. Well, I should hesitate to suggest-off hand a sum; 
but as the question has been asked I will indicate what I had in mind. 
It seems to me, of course, that the commissioners to be appointed 
should serve gratuitously. 

Mr. Rogers. That is provided for in the bill. 

Prof. Scott. That is provided for in the bill. But, m addition to 
that, there should be a paid secretary; and then a certain amount 
should be set aside for necessary traveling and other expenses. 

Mr. Straus. And for plans. 

Prof. Scott. I should think $25,000. 

Mr. Straus. That would not be enough. 

The Chairman. Mr. Straus, do you care to call anybody else \ 

STATEMENT OF PROF. FRED M. FLING, UNIVERSITY OF 

NEBRASKA, LINCOLN. NEBR. 

Prof. Flixg. Mr. Chairman, this matter has been pretty well 
thrashed over here, and it seems to me that the principal point, 
perhaps, has not been sufficiently emphasized. 

One point, as I understand it, is that the Government of the United 
States shall officially declare itself in favor of this celebration and its 
willingness to take some part in it. 

What the size of this committee shall be, how much money shall 
be assigned to them, what the commission shall recommend, after it 
has worked the thing over, it seems to me are secondary points. 
But here is a movement, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that some- 
thing more significant be done than the celebration of the treaty of 
Ghent. This thing is simply part of a great movement, It is not 
simply to celebrate the treaty of Ghent; it is not simply to celebrate 
100 years of peace between England and this country; it is to lay 
the foundation for this great peace movement — in which you are all 
interested, and the representatives of the United States have been 
especiallv friendly to it at all times— the substitution of peaceful 
methods', taking 'a long step toward the. substitution of a world 
organization for the present appeal to arms. 



24 CELEBRATION Of THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

Now the one thing, I think, that impresses an American, Mr. Chair- 
man and gentlemen, who is familiar with life on the Continent as 
well as over here, is the part that the National Government plays or 
the pari thai it does not play in great affairs of this kind. Perhaps 
in the past it has been a good" thing; I douht it very much at present. 
It seems to me when a big thing like this comes up the initiative 
should not be lefl to individuals; it seems to me the direction of it 
ought to be taken out of our hands and be made truly national in 
character. And what kind of a celebration would this be unless it 
had the national stamp upon it? We propose to leave the local 
phase to the citizens of the towns to take care of, but when it comes 
to a national celebration, a celebration meaning the participation of 
England, Canada, France, Germany, and the Tinted States— and all 
these other countries that will participate— what kind of a celebration 
would it be if the United States of America, the great moral force 
of this century, did not stand at the forefront? How can this com- 
mittee, working locally as it has worked, represent the people of the 
United States? 

As i understand. Mr. ( hairman and gentlemen of the committee, 
all that is being asked here is that you' recommend to the House of 
Representatives the creating of a commission. Tt is immaterial how 
large that committee is and how much money shall be given it to do 
their work, but for that committee, by its appointment, to recognize 
that the United States is going to take an ofl cial part in this cele- 
bration, and then that committee can make an estimate as to how 
much money they want to expend and how much money will be 
needed to carry this thing through. Now. when questions have been 
asked as to how much it is going to cost to do this, if your committee 
is simple going to sit down and look over the data of the other com- 
mittee ii "will not take much money; but suppose your committee 
undertakes to formulate larger plans and needs to employ profes- 
sional help to make these estimates, then it will cost much more. 
For this preliminary work T think $25,000 should do it: but it ought 
not to be difficult, after talking it over with the committee, to arrive 
at some estimate as to what that preliminary work would be, so that 
you could fix the number of representatives on the committee and the 
amount of money required and present it to Congress. 1 think what 
the committee has in mind in coming here is not the particular 
features, not to emphasize the number of members of the committee, 
nor the money to be recommended, but that the United States Gov- 
ernment should decide to take an off cial part in this celebration. 
And I hope, gentlemen, that after listening to the sentiment you have 
heard expressed, we will have your hearty support to this end. 

I have been interested now a good many years— naturally , T sup- 
pose, lor a university man and a teacher of young people, and es- 
pecially a teacher of history- in this movement for the establishment 
of an international agreement to take the place of war, and in going 
about speaking to these audiences I have been impressed by the fact 
that everywhere, almost without exception, the idea of a celebration 
of this kind was given a tremendous impetus. 

Mr. Sharp. Thai suggestion I made with reference to the amount 
was only tentative. I think the < xper.se of preparing plans, etc., 
should come out of (he larger general fund when provided. 



CELEBRATION OP THE TREATY OF GHENT. 25 

Mi\|Fling. I quite agree with yon, sir; I do not think it is really 
necessary to go into that now. 

But let me say one thing further: I am a pretty enthusiastic and 
optimistic American. This country is big and rich. I go to the 
Continent and see much there that is far superior to what we get here. 
It is my opinion, not that we should spend money lavishly, but if we 
make up our minds to celebrate this thing it is not a question of how 
much money we want to spend, but what kind of a memorial we 
want to put up. If we want to put up a bridge across the Niagara 
River, then we should put up the money to do that. That is the way 
these things are done over there. It is not a question of what we shall 
build for "to-day or to-morrow, but this country, with its immense 
wealth, should try to do the finest thing that possibly can be done. I 
would rather see one splendid thing than a whole lot of little things 
scattered here and there — something big. Just in a little city like 
Lincoln we raised, three years ago, $40,000 for a statue of Lincoln. 
Its committee, made up of members of the assembly, procured Mr. 
French (the best living sculptor after St. Gaudens) to provide that 
statue and it was dedicated a year ago. Mr. French considers it the 
best thing he has ever done and, next to the work of St. Gaudens, his 
statue of Lincoln, I think, is the finest statue in the United States and 
the finest thing of Lincoln we have and we are proud of it. That is 
the kind of a memorial we want. We have the finest Capitol Building 
here in the world, and we want to match that here and there, all over 
the country, with big things and make this country of ours stand for 
something fine. That is the way we are all interested in it, because 
it seems to me the ideal we like to see this country stand for — big 
things. 

The Chairman. Have you any other speakers, Mr. Humphrey? 

Mr. Humphrey. I see ex-Congressman Pugsley here. 

STATEMENT OF MR. CORNELIUS A. PUGSLEY, FORMERLY A 
MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK. 

Mr. Pugsley. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, the 
facts in conneetion with this movement have been already so clearly 
and fully presented that it is absolutely useless for me to add any- 
thing to* what has already been said. I am sure, however, we may 
safely leave to this Committee on Foreign Affairs this whole project 
and that it will be worked out in a most desirable and satisiactory 
manner for the country and so far as this committee is concerned. 

STATEMENT OF DR. HENRY STURGIS DRINKER, PRESIDENT 

OF LEHIGH UNIVERSITY. 

Dr. Drinker. Mr. Chairman, to me, as I said before the Senate 
Committee on Foreign Relations at our hearing in this matter 18 
months ago, one great main idea stands out boldly — that is, that our 
practical American people should be brought to realize the value of 
this great peace asset that is theirs — the fact that for 100 years the 
blessing of peace has rested, with all its benefits, on Great Britain 
and America, the two great English-speaking nations, who, with just 
rule, dominate the world. 



26 CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 

When we remember the damage inflicted in the War oi' 1812 on 
the commerce of England, and in our Civil War on the commerce of 
the United Stales, by war, the enormous loss in blood and money, 
the paralyzatioD of business and of progress, the loss of precious 
lives, we may well feel that it is worthy of a greal effort to bring 
home to all our people the lessons of 1 his past hundred years of peace, 
and the thought of what peace and amity between the English- 
speaking peoples of the earth will count for in the hundred years to 
come, not only to them, hut by way of precept and example to the 
whole world. 

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY C. MORRIS, ATTORNEY AT LAW, 

CHICAGO, ILL. 

Mr. Morris. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the Chicago organization 
I came to Richmond without any thought of attending this meeting 
in Washington. I am here to-day, however, very much interested 
in the discussion to which you are so kindly listening. 

It seems to me there are just two points I would like to emphasize 
in regard to the features of the proposed celebration. One is the fact 
that the organization of this committee is distinct from that of any 
other committee or any other peace organization in the United States. 
This American. committee does not pretend, as I understand, to touch 
upon the subject of the general peace propaganda. It is a committee 
organized solely and strictly and rigorously limited to the suhjects 
of the celebration of the 100 years of peace between Great Britain, 
the British dominions, and the United States of America. But, on 
the other hand, while it is so rigorously limited in its objects, the 
proposed celebration may be participated in by all the other nations. 
A resolution was adopted at Richmond, I may say, expressing the 
sense of that conference, and it so recommended to the American 
committee, that committees representing all the nationalties in our 
citizenship should be invited to take part in order to show the breadth 
of the sentiment which prevails through the country. And in order 
to give everyone adequate representation in the various localities it 
was further thought that because of the variety of racial groups 
within our borders, it was the sense of that conference that in all the 
local committees, representatives of the various nationalities should 
be actively engaged. So that the object of the celebration is not in 
any sense to be limited simply to the people of the Knglish-speaking 
races. We propose to incorporate, in the management of it, in the 
administration, all of the various elements which form our national 
population and from which we draw our great national activities. 

I am very much impressed. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, with the 
rem; rk of Prof. Fling that it is the tendency, if you please, on the 
part of this people, officially, to be indifferent to occasions of this and 
similar character. I do not mean to say it in the sense of any reproach 
whatever, because I know there are a great many demands upon our 
people, for 1 know you. as a committee, have a great many such 
requests before you, asking you to make appropriations or that you 
sanction or approve plans for the participation oi the United States 
in various enterprises in which a number of nations are interested. 
But 1 am reminded especially of this, in this connection, that last 
winter it was my pleasure to return to the city of Ghent where it had 



CELEBRATION OF THE TREATY OF GHENT. 27 

been my privilege and honor to serve this country for a period of five 
years and where I also had an opportunity again to meet a gentle- 
man who had served during all of that period and perhaps something 
like 20 years as burgomaster, and I called on him and we had some 
conversation about this celebration. He said, "I sincerely hope, 
sir, that your country will take some official recognition." He says, 
"I can not see how, however, you can invite me" (there was an 
invitation at that time outstanding to come to the conference at 
New York, which was to take place in May) "when our invitation to 
the United States to participate in our exposition this summer lias 
been utterly ignored." 

Gentlemen, that is all I have to say and I am very glad indeed to 
leave the matter in the hands of this committee. 

(At this point the bell rang announcing a call of the House.) 

Mr. Humphrey. Mr. Chairman we had one or two other speakers, 
but I realize you will have to suspend here and we thank you for 
your courtesy in receiving us during the busy hours of the day, and 
we now leave the matter in your hands. If you wish to call upon 
us at any time we shall be pleased to render your committee any 
service within our power. 

The Chairman. I see Mrs. Horton here. Do you care to make a 
brief statement, Mrs. Horton? 

Mrs. Horton. Just a word, Mr. Chairman. 

STATEMENT OF MRS. JOHN MILLER HORTON, PRESIDENT OF 
THE LOCAL BOARD OF BUFFALO, N. Y. 

Mrs. Horton. As president of the local board of Buffalo, naturally 
I am very much interested with everything connected with the fron- 
tier, and I would advocate, of course, the bridge we are already 
talking about. But with another thought in view, I would like to 
call your attention to the work of women. I would like to say to 
you that at a meeting of the representatives of the patriotic societies, 
at the Richmond conference, it was unanimously resolved that a 
statue to the memory of the good Queen Victoria would be a very 
suitable method to arouse the interest of the women of the United 
States. 

Of course, we would like a little money; that goes without saying. 
But we might be able to acquire quite a sum ourselves, and I sug- 
gested to those ladies present that they should carry it to their homes, 
to their associations (I will not take your time to mention the differ- 
ent societies we represent), and place it before them, their colleagues, 
and their chapters, and notify me as to the decision reached in con- 
nection with this work. But it certainly seems as if a statue of 
Queen Victoria erected by the women of America would appeal to 
our English cousins, brothers, and friends more than anything we 
might do. 

I thank you for allowing me to present the subject. 

The Chairman. We are very glad to have you with us, Mrs. 
Horton. 

(Thereupon, at 4.15 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.) 



X 



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